Episode 6

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Published on:

17th Jun 2026

Episode 6: Compassion

In this episode of Three Rebel Souls, we continue exploring the values that guide our lives, relationships, and conversations by taking a closer look at Compassion. What does it really mean to lead with love for ourselves and for others, and how do we practice compassion without losing honesty, accountability, or healthy boundaries?

Together, we unpack the difference between being nice and being kind, discuss the importance of honest “fierce kindness,” and examine why self-compassion is often harder than extending compassion to others.

We wrestle with judgment, empathy, accountability, and even our reactions to people who cause harm, ultimately concluding that compassion doesn’t mean excusing behavior, it means recognizing our shared humanity while still maintaining healthy boundaries.

In a world that often rewards outrage and division, choosing compassion, especially toward ourselves and those we disagree with, may be one of the most radical forms of rebellion.

Mentioned in this episode:

Adriana's Outro

Welcome to Three Rebel Souls

Transcript
Speaker:

And we're back We're on Hi, guys

Hello Hello How are you guys?

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How are you feeling?

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Thinking of, how are you feeling?

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What's your underlying

emotion of today right now?

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Underlying emotional state right now?

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Real and genuine.

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That's a loaded question.

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How does permission feel?

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Mm.

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Well, now I need to think about the

real answer It really is difficult.

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Yeah

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I'd say relief for me Because I

don't need surgery on my shoulder.

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So I'm so relieved.

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I'm so excited that I'm like, "Okay,

this is good, and I can go back to

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my normal sooner than I thought."

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Yeah.

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Oh, but you know, honestly, there's

also a lesson in all of this,

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because I've never had any surgeries.

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Very fortunate, I've

never had any surgeries.

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And so, I mean, I've gotten hurt before,

like I've sprained my ankles before.

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Um, but I really thought that I

was … Like, I, like, I really thought

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I was gonna need surgery because of the

pain, and I didn't know how … Anyway,

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I didn't So I was too afraid, uh,

because of that, and so that's why

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I kept putting it off and putting

it off, you know, procrastinating

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on actually getting it looked at.

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And now I'm like, "It's

fucking nothing," you know?

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So the lesson is, like,

just fucking do it.

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Just don't be afraid and deal

with it, because then the other

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thing that I was thinking too is

like, whenever you need surgery,

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then there goes the summer, right?

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You know, like, I don't wanna be,

like, doing this in the summer.

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Don't fuck with your beach days.

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Exactly.

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Exactly.

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So it's a good lesson to just, you

know, stop assuming things or don't

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let the fear- Mm … get in the

way, and just get it checked out.

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But, you know, always work to be done.

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So yeah, so relief is

a big one for me today.

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Uh, I am feeling

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I can get the right word.

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I'm feeling stressed because there's

still far too many things on my plate.

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Mm-hmm.

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And I've been feeling it here,

which tells me my Botox is overdue.

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Oh.

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I need to get her to shoot up my

jaws again so I stop clenching my

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teeth- Yeah … clenching my jaw.

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That's where I feel it the most right now.

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But I've been trying- Are

you getting headaches?

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Huh?

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Are you getting headaches?

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Yes.

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Oh, yeah.

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So I've been, I've been trying to do

more massage and go a little easier.

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I'm surprised that's not covered by

insurance, just because it's- Go a little

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easier on myself … you know, it's not

cosmetic that while you're doing it.

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Right.

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Are you sure it's not covered?

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Well, the place I go doesn't accept

insurance- Oh … but that would probably

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be a good thing for me to look into.

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Yeah.

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But I also did a tiny bit of

stress relief over the weekend.

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Let me show you

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Look at my new Lego flowers

Those don't even look like

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Lego You put all that together?

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It's my Lego flowers.

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Oh my God, they're beautiful.

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Aren't they?

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Magnolia branches.

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They're the pre- I was like,

"These are my favorite ones yet.

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I might need to get- So pretty … two

or three more sets of these.

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Yeah.

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Really pretty.

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So they don't look like Legos.

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No, not at all.

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Crazy, right?

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They're beautiful That was my one

stress relief for the weekend,

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'cause I find that very meditative.

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Like, my hands and my mind are busy

and everything else melts away.

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Yeah.

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How are you feeling, Sloane?

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Tired?

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Mm.

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Six hours sleep again Probably around

there, but I woke up at 3:00, so…

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And I got a little nap in there somewhere.

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But yeah Tired.

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Um, yeah, just tired.

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Yeah.

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I don't…

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I, I could dig further into more

stuff, but that's the overarching theme

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I will add one, though, and I think

that I speak for the three of us,

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but you let me know if I'm wrong.

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Excited?

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Oh, yeah.

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Right?

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About what are we saying- Excited

to be here and doing this.

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Just to be here, yeah.

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Just to be here.

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This is stress relief for me.

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Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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Just having our chats.

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Yes.

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And, um, yeah, so we're continuing today

with one more of our values, compassion.

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And, um, I will read w-

how we define compassion.

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And that is, we lead with love

for ourselves and for others.

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We meet in the mess with open

hearts and fierce kindness.

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We're not here to perform healing.

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We don't try to fix or save.

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We witness, support, and remind

each other of our own strength

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Okay, so Who wrote that?

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It's fantastic Good definition.

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So, as we discuss compassion

today, um, what does that

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actually look like in your world?

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I think what jumps out to me,

um, today is the fierce kindness.

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Like, I was giggling when you

read that because that's…

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I don't know, I think that's accurate

in how I present things, you know?

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I'm pretty

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Adept at delivering

love, love bitch slaps.

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Um Love that.

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As Bree so kindly put it.

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That's a love bitch slap right there.

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Oh.

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Like, okay, as long as you know it's love.

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Um, because what's coming to

mind is, like, Simon Sinek talks

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about be kind, not nice, right?

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Mm.

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Like, um, nice is surface.

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Nice is No, everything's fine.

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Um- Yeah … temporary comfort,

whereas kindness is really a more

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active way to show care and support.

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Um, just adding that little fierceness

there made, made it very, um

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entertaining for me 'cause I feel like

that's how it comes out sometimes.

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It's a little fierce, and the way

that we support each other, right?

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Like- Yeah … if you're saying

something, I'm like, "Don't you

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talk about my friend like that."

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Um.

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Even if you're the friend or

what that's talking like that.

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Right, right.

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I mean.

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If it's you talking about yourself- Right

… don't talk about my friend like that.

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Love that.

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I know, but that's so good, 'cause

it's such a good reminder then for the

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friend to be like, "Right, I'm gonna

be, I'm gonna be kinder to myself."

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Right?

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Yeah.

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What would you say to me if I said that?

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And then like, "Okay,

take your own advice."

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Like- Right, exactly … we turn things

around on each other all the time.

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I love that you brought that up,

because that's actually one of the

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things that I was thinking about today.

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Um, it's this concept that I had

read about a while ago and kind of

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forgot about, and then it resurfaced.

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Um, and I don't, I can't remember if

we've ever talked about this before

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directly, um, but the difference between

idiot compassion and wise compassion.

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Have we talked about this?

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Oh, I don't think so.

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But please go on.

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Okay.

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So, I mean- Idiot compassion.

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It's exactly what Sloan just said, but

idiot compassion is that sort of like

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it's the kindness, it's the enabling,

it's the telling people what they wanna

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hear for, like, temporary relief- Mm-hmm

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of whatever it is.

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The nice.

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The nice.

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Yes, it's the niceties.

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And wise compassion is

truth even when it's hard.

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Yes.

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Right?

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It's the things that are like…

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Or how do we sit with someone in a

really, like, honest, uncomfortable way?

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We aren't gonna, like, deliver

these sort of canned niceties just

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usually to make ourselves more

comfortable with whatever- Mm.

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we're sitting with-

Right … as well, right?

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So it's, it's tr- Like, the wise

compassion is a true form of support.

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But it's, it's, like, the most pure

form of kindness, even if sometimes

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it's hard to show up in that way, right?

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Like, to, to tell the

truth in that situation.

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Or to show up for someone in

a way that's uncomfortable.

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Yeah.

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And a little truth there.

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A plug for our next value.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Great.

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Yeah.

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I, well, I feel like, too, like,

leading with love, I think that

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can get misconstrued, too, right?

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Because I feel like, again, like

so many people can look at, like,

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leading with love means to be nice.

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Mm-hmm.

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Right?

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And not be, be honest.

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Mm-hmm.

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I don't know any other way.

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Yeah.

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I don't know any other

way than honest, you know?

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Well, it's, so it's interesting 'cause

I also feel like it's a Northeast

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thing- Mm … that we, we actually

may be a bit more used to that.

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Which- Mm … like we say, like I

say this all the time, like I live

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in Massachusetts, and everyone

here is referred to as a Masshole.

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But- Mm.

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What?

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… Massachusetts people are known

for being kind but not nice.

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Mm.

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When you hear people from Massachusetts

speak to one of, they don't sound

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like they're being nice, but they're

actually some of the most kind

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people I've ever been around, right?

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Yeah.

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And I saw this hilarious, um, TikTok

video of this girl who was, like visiting

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a friend here during a snowstorm, and

she was like, "I was trying to back

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out of her driveway, like before we had

cleared any of the snow, and I got stuck.

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And the two guys that were next

door shoveling their driveway

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came over and shoveled me out.

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But while they were shoveling me out,

they were like, 'What is it, your

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first time driving a fucking car?'

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Like, 'Have you ever driven in

the snow before, you idiot?'"

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And they're like berating her while

doing, like the most kind, helpful thing.

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And she's like, "It's the

most Massachusetts thing I've

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ever experienced in my life."

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And I just, I think that's- It's

honest … it's a hilarious example.

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Like, we're deeply compassionate.

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I feel like we're kind of known here for

having like, you know, great policies

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and, like truly caring people and it's,

it's a very like, kind of safe space,

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but they're not gonna be nice about it.

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Yeah.

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Well, I don't know if I can say the same.

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But I'll take, I'll take

the true kindness any day.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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I was gonna say, I don't know

if I'd say the same thing

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for New Jersey and New York.

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But I feel like they're

honest anyway, you know?

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Yeah, that's true.

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They're honest.

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Maybe it's a bit more harsh.

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It's a little more harsh, so it's kind

of a little more up my valley, 'cause…

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Valley?

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Alley.

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Alley.

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We're nowhere near valleys around here.

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Um- So, yeah, 'cause, you

know, people will dish it.

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People dish it around here,

and I'm like, "All right.

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You better be able to take it, too."

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Mm.

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Um, so yeah, I feel like, you know,

that for me, for me it's the, the whole

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being kind but being honest, which

sometimes it doesn't feel like it's,

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like I'm being kind because I am so- Yeah

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honest.

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Like, like, so, um, what's the word?

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Um, blunt sometimes.

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So, um, which is funny 'cause actually,

I just really quick to sidetrack,

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I had another dream last night.

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I had a crazy dream last night,

but we'll tell you, we'll

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talk about that another time.

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But I had this dream last night that

I was in a neighbor's house, I mean,

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in a neighbor's apartment, and it's…

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I guess it was a guy's apartment,

and when I walked in it was kind of,

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like, messy, like clothes, boxes.

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I don't know if moving in or out.

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No clue.

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I kind of walked out of the room and

walked back in, and then there was a woman

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there who was, like, folding clothes.

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I said to her, "Men are so helpless."

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And as soon as I said it, 'cause,

you know, typical fashion, when

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I s- something comes out of my

mouth I'm always like, you know?

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Like, I shock myself.

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Like, "Shit, I said that out loud."

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I'm like…

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I go, "I'm sorry."

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I'm like, "I'm so blunt."

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And the guy said, "Don't worry.

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You didn't offend me."

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You know?

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Like, "It's okay.

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You didn't offend me."

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So even in my dreams I'm, being

honest and- And blunt … very blunt.

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So…

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She's a straight shooter.

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Yeah.

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Um- But sometimes I feel like I'm not

being kind, but I'm like, well, I'm

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I try.

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Like, I'm so mu- I'm so much

more aware now about that part

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of myself that I really try to

deliver things a little more gently.

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Um, but yeah, I feel like you

can't beat the truth, right?

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No.

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But I think there's like … For me,

it's very easy, the way this shows up

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the most for me is towards other people.

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Yeah.

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It's very easy for me to be compassionate

towards other people, even if

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sometimes, like, that compassion

means honesty, which can be hard and

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uncomfortable, but it's still very

hard for me to do for myself, right?

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Like, even before when I was saying,

like, I'm stressed because I'm

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busy, because I've taken on a lot.

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But even still, and I know you're

gonna, like, I'm gonna get the

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eyes from you, Sloane, because

we've talked about this many times.

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But I'll make a to-do list at the

beginning of the day that's just

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wildly unrealistic, and then at the

end of the day, when I haven't met

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my wildly unrealistic expectations,

I'm like, "You're a piece of shit."

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And Yeah … right?

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So I can't be compassi- I

have a har- not that I can't.

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I have a harder time being compassionate

with myself, giving myself grace,

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making sure I'm, you know, showing

myself, like, love and kindness and

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taking care of me, uh, than I d- it's

way easier for me to jump in and be

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compassionate with other people, or

even, like, kind of defend other people

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or take a more compassionate approach.

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Hmm.

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I would agree with that.

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I, I definitely have a much

harder time with compassion

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towards myself than others.

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Although I do struggle with others

too, depending on the person.

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So it's really hard for me- Dang, what?

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… even like- Mm.

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When just, when someone's just nasty.

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Mm.

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You know?

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When someone's just nasty and they're

just, like, an awful person, I

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have a really hard time with being

compassionate and just seeing that-

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where it might be coming from.

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I lo- I don't…

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I'm sorry.

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Yeah, 'cause she lost her mind.

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But yeah, 'cause she knows

who I'm talking about.

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No, but you just said, you just

said nasty, and the way that you

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said it, all I heard- Yes … were

my cousins from New York.

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Yeah.

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And I was like, "Oh, there's

that coming out of…"

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Nasty.

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Yeah.

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Nasty.

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Nasty.

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Because there's no better word

than they're just fucking nasty.

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And so it's really fucking hard to be

compassionate and just, like- You know?

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I, I guess it's hard to be compassionate

towards that person because most of the

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time they're being nasty towards someone

else, so I'm feeling more compassionate

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about the person on their re- the

receiving end of their nastiness- Mm-hmm

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than them.

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So I guess that's where I feel

like I struggle, outside of

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myself, where I struggle with,

um, having compassion for others.

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Well, and my logical brain knows I

actually probably should be compassionate

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towards that person because there's

some sort of, like, wound or trauma

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or something- Right … that has

resulted in that type of behavior.

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Or even a purpose.

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Yeah.

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But I'm, but I still, like, my, my

logical brain and my empathetic heart

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have a hard time- Yeah … connecting

Reconciling that, right, exactly.

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It just, yeah, it just doesn't jive.

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Just doesn't go.

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Right.

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Doesn't go together.

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Yeah.

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Excellent, so thinking face on.

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Mm-hmm.

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I know.

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So I'm like- Yeah … uh,

I have two things.

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Um To, just to add on to what you were

saying, Adriana, like two things came

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up for me when you were saying that.

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Yeah, like history, I think, plays a role.

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Um, like it's hard to

let go of past things.

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Mm.

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And just be in the present- Yes

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thing.

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Um, it's like we're really

good at dragging all of…

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Or rather I am.

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I have an excellent memory.

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I'm with you.

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And I would be like, "I

see you doing this thing.

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You've done it this time,

this time, this time."

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That, and like naming dates, talking

conversations, like I can replay

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the entire fucking conversation.

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Do you need me to show

you all the receipts?

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'Cause I have them.

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Well documented.

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Boom.

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In a spreadsheet.

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There they are.

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Right.

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On this date, at this time, you

said this, and I said that, and

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you said this, and I said that.

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Any of this ringing a bell?

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Like literally word for word.

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And you remember everything

word for word, right.

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Entire conversations.

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Yes.

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Like…

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Oh my God, yes.

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Me too.

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Yes.

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So that is a, a struggle.

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Yes.

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But I think even more directly

to what you were saying is when

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I am sitting in judgment, right?

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Mm-hmm.

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Like, "I would never do that."

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Mm.

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"That person is bad."

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Right.

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That's…

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And

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Hopefully more often now.

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That was a struggle to say.

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I am a little bit more aware

of when I'm doing that.

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Um, mostly depends on my mood of the day.

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Um- Or whether or not I'm hungry-

Exactly … or have slept well.

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How tired I am.

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Like, that's- Exactly.

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Yeah.

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Depending on- My c- my ability

to be compassionate is directly

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correlated to how hungry- Exactly

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tired, thirsty-

Yeah … and stressed I am.

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Yeah.

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I would say that's true

for anybody, right?

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Exactly, but that's the point.

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Exactly.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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Like, because that other person, they're

dealing with all of that shit, too.

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Yeah.

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Right?

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Like, so who am I to

say I wouldn't do that?

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Hmm.

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I don't know that.

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Right.

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I don't know that I wouldn't do that.

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Having the day, the life, the thing

that they're going through right

427

:

now- Right … how would I react?

428

:

Because I don't know what the

fuck they're going through.

429

:

So it's, it's…

430

:

I will say I'm better at noticing it now.

431

:

Does that remove me being

judgmental of people?

432

:

No, especially when it comes to work.

433

:

Like, this- Yeah

434

:

is probably where I struggle with it

the hardest because I work really hard.

435

:

Like, I am constantly learning and trying

and putting in effort, and you know, like,

436

:

I do not expect perfection for myself, so

I, I'm not gonna say that's where it comes

437

:

from, but I wanna know I gave my best.

438

:

Mm.

439

:

Right?

440

:

Like, and when other people

just, like, fucking half-ass

441

:

shit and fuck off and, like…

442

:

That doesn't matter to me.

443

:

It's like, ugh, it's so insulting.

444

:

I, I take it personally, right?

445

:

So it's easy for me to sit in judgment-

Yeah … and not compassion in those

446

:

situations where if I catch myself and

take a step back and go, especially

447

:

when there's history involved, if

this person did this, like, let's say-

448

:

Judy, right?

449

:

I have a history with Judy, and

oh, they're doing that thing again.

450

:

Um- Is Judy being Judy?

451

:

Do you make it a verb?

452

:

You pulled a Judy.

453

:

You're do- I do

not … you're doing a Judy.

454

:

I only do that with one person.

455

:

And that's just because

they can't spell for shit.

456

:

But, um, and it's fucking

hysterical But, um

457

:

When I, when I'm in a good place and able

to, like, notice what I'm doing, I can be

458

:

like, "Well, let's change the characters.

459

:

Let's say John Smith did the same thing."

460

:

John and I have a great relationship.

461

:

I know that they are awesome,

and they got other way to do

462

:

things for people and whatever.

463

:

You know, like, if John Smith did that

same thing, would I still feel this way?

464

:

And nine times out of

10, the answer is no.

465

:

Hmm.

466

:

Hmm.

467

:

That's a really interesting reframe.

468

:

I love that.

469

:

Do you have that?

470

:

And that's just ta- trying to

take my bias out of it, really.

471

:

Yeah Recognizing my bias towards that

person based on other things that aren't-

472

:

Yeah … about this current situation.

473

:

Yeah.

474

:

Maybe they're somewhat related,

but it's not directly related

475

:

to the current situation.

476

:

So, um, and that kind of, I think

maybe, like, opens the door to

477

:

compassion for me, where I can be like-

Mm … A, be compassionate with myself.

478

:

I'm bringing other shit into

this that shouldn't be there.

479

:

And then B, I'm projecting a

bunch of crap onto this person-

480

:

Right … and they don't know that.

481

:

So, right.

482

:

Yeah.

483

:

That's my struggle.

484

:

No, I, I like that 'cause I'm li-

I'm glad that you brought up the

485

:

judgment because, I mean, that

is the huge piece of it, right?

486

:

It's 'cause you, you are- The other

side of compassion … in, in judgment.

487

:

Right.

488

:

You know, whenever you…

489

:

I mean, how many times you hear so

many things, like when someone cuts

490

:

you off or whatever, you just don't

know what people are going through,

491

:

and we shouldn't take it personal.

492

:

But again- Mm … I will say when

someone's being nasty, it's hard for

493

:

me not to get- I get it … pissed off.

494

:

But- Yeah … yeah.

495

:

Um, so I, yeah, that's, that's, that's

where I struggle with it too in that,

496

:

in that sense, because I think that

is just, like, that I'm so empathetic

497

:

that I don't like to see what one

person's doing to someone else.

498

:

Um…

499

:

Well, here's an interesting reframe.

500

:

Yeah.

501

:

Let's say that you are the abuser in this

situation, whoever it is being an asshole.

502

:

How would you feel later reflecting

back on that interaction?

503

:

If I was the abuser.

504

:

And your role in it If

you were the bad guy.

505

:

I'm sorry, go ahead.

506

:

If I was, if I was the bad guy?

507

:

Mm-hmm.

508

:

Oh, I mean, well, I mean, I can

think of just instances of where I

509

:

would … maybe not the nasty person

I was thinking of earlier, 'cause that

510

:

would never be me, but, but definitely

being, like, um, unkind, have a

511

:

moment of like- The wrong side of it,

yeah … yeah, 'cause I've done it.

512

:

I know I did it, I did it recently, and

honestly, I don't even remember what it

513

:

was, and I think the fact that I don't

remember what it was is good because-

514

:

I used to, when I used, I mean, I used to

have a fucking chip on my shoulder when

515

:

I was younger, and so I would really,

like, things would just trigger me,

516

:

and I would, I didn't care, you know?

517

:

I would just fucking blurt shit out

and whatever and not be so nice.

518

:

Um, but I would feel like shit afterwards.

519

:

I would feel awful afterwards.

520

:

And, um, you know, with the instance

that happened recently, which again,

521

:

I, I know it happened in, in, like, a

supermarket or something, and I don't

522

:

even remember what the interaction was.

523

:

I just remember afterwards, and I was

like, "Oh, that was not kind," you know?

524

:

But then I said to myself, like, "Okay,

you were not kind, but let's not beat

525

:

ourselves up about it," because that

would be my next go-to, would be like

526

:

I would replay that in my head over and

over again and be so mean to myself.

527

:

Then I would turn it on me for having h-

had a moment of weakness and being unkind.

528

:

And, um, and I was like, no,

I'm gonna have compassion for

529

:

myself, like, okay, you messed up.

530

:

You realized you did something unkind.

531

:

We'll try better next time, right?

532

:

And I think that's why I don't

remember, is because I actually,

533

:

like, had compassion with myself, and-

Protective mechanism to like- Yeah, yeah

534

:

I feel like my, I feel like my body and

brain would be like, "Let's just…"

535

:

Yeah.

536

:

Well, no, because normally when I do stuff

like that, I would just ruminate over it.

537

:

Oh, that's true.

538

:

And I would just keep beating

myself up over the fact that I

539

:

said that thing and, like, how

awful I feel for saying that thing.

540

:

So I would ruminate over that.

541

:

And then it almost becomes

part of the pattern, like-

542

:

Mm … well, that's how I am.

543

:

Right, exactly, and I'm a bad person

'cause, look, there's the proof, right?

544

:

So I had to be compassionate with myself.

545

:

And I think because I was compassionate

with myself, I … That's why I

546

:

don't remember what it actually was,

'cause I didn't ruminate over it.

547

:

And I, that's why- Uh-huh … I don't

have a clear recollection of what the

548

:

interaction actually was, 'cause there's

other ones before that that I totally

549

:

remember what they were, you know?

550

:

Yeah, compassion is definitely

work in progress for me.

551

:

Well, I wa- like, and I mean, it's…

552

:

I think it's a work in progress for

all of us, but I've, I think, I mean, I

553

:

think I'm working towards, I don't think

I'm consistently practicing what you

554

:

just said, but I've had moments of it.

555

:

Mm.

556

:

But I- but it's, it's still much

more of a struggle for me to

557

:

be compassionate with myself.

558

:

I wanna go back to the thing that

Sloane said earlier of, um- Uh

559

:

Shoot.

560

:

Never mind.

561

:

I just lost my thought.

562

:

… I hate when that happens.

563

:

Back to you, Adriana.

564

:

Well, I was just gonna say is, you

know, similar to, to, to the…

565

:

building on that, Adriana,

is, like, that's one way that

566

:

I find compassion for people.

567

:

It doesn't happen naturally.

568

:

I have to cultivate it, right?

569

:

Mm.

570

:

Yeah.

571

:

When I see somebody being a dick,

I'm like, "Your snap judgment

572

:

is you're a fucking dick."

573

:

Yep.

574

:

Like…

575

:

Just came back.

576

:

Okay.

577

:

Of, no, how you were saying, like,

I- it's, it's me sitting here going,

578

:

"Well, I would never do that."

579

:

Yeah.

580

:

And so immediately, like,

the judgment comes out.

581

:

Right.

582

:

And it's, "I would never do that."

583

:

So it's hard for me to be compassionate

with people when the way that they're

584

:

behaving or moving through the world

is so misaligned with my values.

585

:

Yeah.

586

:

Right?

587

:

Um, and it's hard for me to

get to that place of, like,

588

:

compassion or even empathy.

589

:

Um- Yeah … even though, and you

said this earlier, Adriana, like,

590

:

even though, like, you're an empath.

591

:

I'm an empath.

592

:

We're, like, we're empathic people.

593

:

We're deeply feeling people.

594

:

Mm-hmm.

595

:

And it's hard for me to- Have compassion

or to show empathy towards people who…

596

:

You know, like we all have

choice and agency, and you're

597

:

actively choosing, right?

598

:

Right.

599

:

You're actively choosing that way.

600

:

That's an, that's an assumption.

601

:

Yeah.

602

:

But it is a choice, isn't it?

603

:

Is it?

604

:

Fair.

605

:

They could be operating from,

like, a more subconscious pattern.

606

:

Something, like- I don't

know … deeply rooted.

607

:

Sometimes it's not a choice for me.

608

:

When I flip my lid, it's rarely a fucking

choice Okay, that's fair I don't say,

609

:

"I'm gonna lose my shit today," and-

It would be awesome if I just went No.

610

:

That's…

611

:

No.

612

:

Like, I've regretted every single

time I've, I've lost my shit.

613

:

Like That person is not nice.

614

:

Hmm.

615

:

She's a bitch on wheels- I don't like her

616

:

and she will destroy just about

anything that gets in her path.

617

:

And so- Did you just say

she's a bitch on wheels?

618

:

Yeah.

619

:

Yeah.

620

:

But it's more…

621

:

It's worse than that.

622

:

It's a bull in a China shop.

623

:

Everything will be destroyed,

regardless of whether it has anything

624

:

to do with what's actually going on.

625

:

Okay.

626

:

Like- Okay

627

:

so I'm not saying, yes, sometimes

it is a choice because people

628

:

are choosing to live that way.

629

:

But at other times- And

choosing not to change it.

630

:

Yeah … stuff happens, man.

631

:

Sure Like…

632

:

Okay.

633

:

I think it's still…

634

:

Okay.

635

:

That's- Now I'm gonna have to,

like, unpack that, um, some more.

636

:

But coming to, like- I have to

rethink my entire judgment theory

637

:

I know.

638

:

What the- Right.

639

:

I hate when you do that.

640

:

I hate when you make me rethink shit.

641

:

I was perfectly comfortable

in my limited ways.

642

:

Judgment.

643

:

Um.

644

:

Well, again, we'll just apply

that, the same thing that I

645

:

brought up earlier to that, right?

646

:

Like, you see somebody doing something and

you're like, "They're not a good person.

647

:

They're an asshole because

they're doing this."

648

:

Put me in that situation.

649

:

How would I react if I

saw Stacy doing that?

650

:

And be like, "Girl, you good?

651

:

Are you okay?"

652

:

Exactly.

653

:

Because you would know,

because you know me.

654

:

Right.

655

:

Right.

656

:

And you know- 'Cause I have more

context … if I have lost my shit,

657

:

there is definitely something wrong.

658

:

Right?

659

:

It's for good reason.

660

:

Right.

661

:

I don't know about that every time, but…

662

:

I mean, somewhere deep inside,

yes, there's a very good reason.

663

:

Right.

664

:

What's happening on the surface

might have nothing to do with

665

:

the real- Right … thing, right?

666

:

But- Okay.

667

:

So that's, that's maybe, like,

coming to this part of the value of,

668

:

like, we, we witness, we support.

669

:

Like, we don't try to fix and

solve, like, those things.

670

:

So the, the compassion is, like, it's

not conditional, and that's the part

671

:

that's so hard for me to practice.

672

:

Mm.

673

:

Yep.

674

:

Right?

675

:

Like, it's not…

676

:

Like, we're saying how much easier

it is to show up that way in

677

:

certain situations or for certain

people where we have more context.

678

:

Right.

679

:

It's much harder when we're

making assumptions about the

680

:

situation or the person, and

we don't actually have context.

681

:

We're filling in the gaps.

682

:

Yeah.

683

:

Um, that's a really interesting

perspective, because the other, like, the

684

:

other piece of that is, like, sometimes

it's hard when we can see someone

685

:

struggling and choosing not to, um,

just, like, do something about it, right?

686

:

Right.

687

:

But the other side of that is, like, the

performative, like, healing or the- Mm-hmm

688

:

like, perform- like, the things

that are disingenuous in the way-

689

:

Mm-hmm … that they show up,

which also is a struggle for me.

690

:

Um, but-

691

:

Gosh, that's so interesting because

when we talk about, like, being

692

:

deeply empathetic people and,

like, deeply feeling people, um

693

:

It fee-, it still feels I don't know.

694

:

It still feels like there's,

like, a lot of work for me to do.

695

:

Because the challenge- I agree.

696

:

The challenge that you're talking about

is because I know you, and because I love

697

:

you, and because I have context into,

like, who you are as a person, your, your

698

:

history, your healing, like the things

that you're working on, it's way easier

699

:

for me to have empathy for you- Right

700

:

to have compassion for you- Right

… because I have a deeper understanding

701

:

And empathy too is like wh- uh, like

I read that thing recently that I

702

:

shared with you guys, like cognitive

empathy versus affective empathy.

703

:

Mm-hmm.

704

:

The difference between, like,

understanding other people's perspectives,

705

:

like finding ways to, like, make

connection and build trust, and show,

706

:

show up for someone, like hold space for

someone and, and show empathy, versus the

707

:

affective empathy, which is taking it on.

708

:

Hmm.

709

:

Like feeling what they feel, which

leads to either, like, our own

710

:

emotional burnout because we're

taking on things that aren't ours.

711

:

Mm-hmm.

712

:

Right?

713

:

And we become, like, emotionally

drained or emotionally exhausted.

714

:

Or it leads to that, like,

codependent enmeshment where,

715

:

like, I'm only good if you're good.

716

:

Mm-hmm.

717

:

Like that affective empathy is not a,

like, a steady or healthy space to be in.

718

:

Yeah.

719

:

And so I think I, like…

720

:

I think I also have a

little bit of trouble.

721

:

Maybe this is, like, my, my all or

nothing thinking, but, like, I have a

722

:

little bit of trouble because I'm like,

"Okay, then, well, what are the rules?"

723

:

Right?

724

:

Like when- Yeah.

725

:

That makes sense to me … when is

it okay for me to be compassionate

726

:

towards someone, and when does that,

like, when is that person I don't know.

727

:

But I guess, like, the rule is-

Be compassionate to everybody?

728

:

Always.

729

:

Yeah.

730

:

That's, I know, I know that it is.

731

:

Don't be selective Okay.

732

:

So I understand that we have to be

compassionate towards everybody.

733

:

I totally get that.

734

:

And because I'm someone who really enjoys

watching t- true crime I have a hard

735

:

time with being compassionate, you know?

736

:

No, I get it.

737

:

Right.

738

:

But like- You know, with people like that.

739

:

That's, that's what I'm … That's what

… Those are the kind of people where I

740

:

say, like, that they're bad, nasty.

741

:

Like, bad people that I have- Nasty … a

hard time having compassion for.

742

:

What'd you say?

743

:

Nasty.

744

:

Nasty.

745

:

Nasty.

746

:

That's how you say it.

747

:

Um, no, I get it.

748

:

This … Compassion doesn't

mean giving them a free pass.

749

:

Right.

750

:

Right?

751

:

And it, and it also doesn't mean

excusing- Exactly … bad behavior.

752

:

Well, okay.

753

:

Exactly.

754

:

Actually … Ah, okay.

755

:

This is really good.

756

:

I know.

757

:

I'm glad that you said that it doesn't

mean giving them a free pass, because, for

758

:

example, yesterday I was watching, um, the

sentencing of someone who did something

759

:

bad, and, and the jury was deliberating

whether he gets life in prison or, um,

760

:

if he goes, if he, uh, gets, um, sh-

… Why can't I think of the other one?

761

:

Lethal injection?

762

:

Yes.

763

:

What's it called?

764

:

The death penalty?

765

:

Death penalty.

766

:

Thank you.

767

:

My God..

768

:

Freaking menopause.

769

:

Okay.

770

:

Ah.

771

:

Uh, so death sentence, right?

772

:

And, um, and he got the death

sentence, and I got really emotional

773

:

because I felt like, how sad.

774

:

I, I actually felt compassion for him, you

know, because I'm like, he's a human, too

775

:

and of course what he did was awful,

but now he's gonna be put to death.

776

:

So I, I actually got emotional,

so, okay, so I take it back.

777

:

I can have some compassion, a little

bit, but I was like, "But you did that,"

778

:

so, um…

779

:

I think the boundary for me that I need

to, like, maybe set is that, like, it's,

780

:

it's similar to the same thing, the same

idea around, like, forgiveness, right?

781

:

Like, forgiveness isn't

for them, it's for me.

782

:

Mm-hmm.

783

:

It's for me to, like, be able to, like,

let go so the compa- And it's not an

784

:

excuse for bad behavior or like- Yeah

785

:

anything like that.

786

:

So I think maybe the boundary on those

extreme cases of, like, how do you

787

:

show compassionate to s- compassion

to someone who's truly, like, causing

788

:

harm, like actively causing harm, right?

789

:

Yeah.

790

:

It's, I'm not, it's, it, it doesn't

mean, it doesn't even necessarily

791

:

mean I empathize with them.

792

:

It's that, like- I have compassion for

whatever happened in your life that

793

:

led you to this place Yeah, it's like

you're having a human, a moment of,

794

:

like- It's- … humanness … yeah.

795

:

Like, things must have been really

hard for, for it to come to this.

796

:

Yeah.

797

:

And that's terrible.

798

:

But I guess that's- And he said-

… what we need to consider, right?

799

:

Like, those are the things that we

need to consider in those moments

800

:

when all we're seeing is the bad.

801

:

Yeah.

802

:

Yeah.

803

:

But not, but, but not making it okay.

804

:

But it's not, it's still not excusing.

805

:

Right, not excusing it, right.

806

:

Correct.

807

:

But also, like, I think another

way that I find compassion for

808

:

bad people, uh, if we're gonna

just use the broad term, is- Yeah

809

:

You know, they're missing out on a

lot I- that's what I think about too.

810

:

I think about that too, where I'm

like, I like, I think about s-

811

:

Like the healing side of it, right?

812

:

Where you're like, "I know that it's

scary, and I know that it's hard, but

813

:

I promise-" Mm … "everything that's

on the other side of that is so much

814

:

better than the pain you're feeling now."

815

:

Like, the pain of going through

the healing, it's still painful.

816

:

Mm.

817

:

But that's better than

what you're feeling now.

818

:

It's also a different

kind of pain, though.

819

:

It is.

820

:

It's not, you're not- It is … you're

not suffering in, like, that-

821

:

And the same thing where- Yeah … you're

allowing that thing to hurt you.

822

:

Yeah, you're letting it go.

823

:

But- Right Yeah, you're

actually letting it go.

824

:

And- It's a different kind of pain.

825

:

It- It's a different kind of

pain- It's like a relief … but

826

:

it's such a rewarding pain.

827

:

A- So rewarding … it's

like relief through the pain.

828

:

Like, it's- Yeah.

829

:

Yeah … so interesting.

830

:

'Cause it's like actually looking

at the pain, recognizing it, and I

831

:

mean, and also I feel that it's taking

accountability for that pain too.

832

:

'Cause even if someone, if you're

not responsible for it- We have

833

:

to take accountability for parts

of it Yeah Does that make sense?

834

:

Yeah.

835

:

I, I like that perspective too.

836

:

Like, I'm … Like, it, it

sucks that you're missing out

837

:

on all of this, like, good.

838

:

Yeah.

839

:

Yeah.

840

:

Right?

841

:

Right?

842

:

'Cause, I mean, going back to Adriana's

example, you know, like serial killers

843

:

and stuff, they don't feel like we feel.

844

:

And how fucking- Right … sad is that?

845

:

Yeah, they don't.

846

:

That's … Exactly.

847

:

Like, they're missing

so much in their lives.

848

:

Like, I can feel compassion for that.

849

:

Mm.

850

:

Because they don't even know.

851

:

They don't even know- Yeah,

it's- … what that feels

852

:

like … to me, that's heartbreaking.

853

:

Yeah.

854

:

Like- They don't even know what

that feels like … that's … Yeah.

855

:

'Cause it's not like

they could at one point.

856

:

Right.

857

:

Right.

858

:

I mean, some might be able to, but- Maybe.

859

:

Not … But not- Yeah … I, I

think the majority, no … most

860

:

just in g- in general.

861

:

Yeah.

862

:

Yeah.

863

:

The psychopaths are- Right.

864

:

Yeah … they don't have that … I

m- … And I'm, I'm using that term

865

:

scientifically, not, um, slangy.

866

:

Right.

867

:

Not like- Correct.

868

:

Technically- Yeah … psychopaths- Yeah

869

:

don't have the same- Yeah, the

anti-personality disorders.

870

:

They don't- Yeah … they don't feel.

871

:

They're very in it.

872

:

They feel.

873

:

They don't feel … Right.

874

:

They feel about themselves.

875

:

Right.

876

:

They … So to be fair, they do

have those things about themselves.

877

:

Right.

878

:

They j- Like, they love themself.

879

:

Mm-hmm.

880

:

But how much richer is it to

have that exchange back and

881

:

forth with somebody else?

882

:

Like- Yeah.

883

:

Yeah, I know.

884

:

It's, it's sad.

885

:

So I had one more question, and

I feel like we're getting to it

886

:

because- Yeah, then we went…

887

:

Yeah.

888

:

Well, w- I was gonna say, like, what

about compassion feels rebellious?

889

:

But I feel like we kinda started

talking about it a little bit-

890

:

Yeah … 'cause I feel like the

whole healing process, right?

891

:

The healing process is,

is definitely part of it.

892

:

For me, I think we were also

taught to be compassionate towards

893

:

others, but not towards ourselves.

894

:

Oh, absolutely.

895

:

Like, uh, like the sort of

perfectionism or, like, the, the

896

:

hustle, the grind, the high standards

was, like, glorified, right?

897

:

Mm-hmm.

898

:

So it's like, well, no, you're

just n- you're never doing enough.

899

:

It's not enough no matter

how much it is, right?

900

:

So it's hard.

901

:

That's the unlearning for me, or,

like, where, where, like, my healing

902

:

needs to come into play because it's

hard to unlearn those patterns and be

903

:

compassionate with myself when there are

so many times I've told myself that what I

904

:

did today was not enough because I didn't

complete the unrealistic to-do list- Yeah

905

:

that I created.

906

:

1,000 tasks on my list today.

907

:

Right.

908

:

Yeah.

909

:

It's like I operate every single day

as though I'm, like, Hermione with

910

:

a time turner and I can just, like,

gain five hours and redo the whole

911

:

day- … and it's not how the world works.

912

:

I think the other piece for

me that feels so rebellious…

913

:

Sorry, I'm just picturing Erica like…

914

:

Three turns, and then I'm gonna go

back to the top of my to-do list.

915

:

Um, let me just get through these

five meetings in a row, and then

916

:

I'm gonna turn, turn, turn and

get some real work done for once.

917

:

Ugh.

918

:

Yeah, no.

919

:

Um, so- What a fucking

nightmare, by the way.

920

:

The part- Continue.

921

:

The part that feels rebellious

is exactly, like- Right

922

:

the, the societal divide, like,

the divisiveness right now.

923

:

Yes.

924

:

Mm.

925

:

And it's how difficult it is to have

compassion for people on the other side

926

:

of what's becoming, like, very prominent,

like, moral and ethical dilemmas.

927

:

Yeah.

928

:

Right?

929

:

It's d- it's becoming very

difficult, and it's kind of…

930

:

It's the cause of the divide.

931

:

It's our inability to see the

humanity in each other anymore.

932

:

Yep.

933

:

Yeah, I feel like- That's what

feels rebellious right now.

934

:

Yeah.

935

:

And to add to that too, I feel like

people feel like they're entitled to not

936

:

be compassionate towards those people

because of how they saw something.

937

:

And I feel like, but doesn't that

just keep us in the same- Yes

938

:

place?

939

:

Like, doesn't that just…

940

:

Now, now, now you're the one doing it.

941

:

Exactly.

942

:

And also, having compassion for

someone, again, like we said earlier,

943

:

doesn't mean letting them off the hook.

944

:

Right.

945

:

Mm-hmm.

946

:

But didn't we want them, you know?

947

:

Like, didn't we want people to

see- Change their mind, yeah.

948

:

Yeah … think differently.

949

:

So, like, they are.

950

:

Maybe not when you wanted it to

happen, but they did, so we can have

951

:

compassion for, for that and whatever

it is that they went through, and

952

:

then be willing to help, but also, you

know, as long as they're willing to

953

:

take accountability for their part.

954

:

Not just like- Mm … "Oh, we're done.

955

:

Nope, don't worry."

956

:

No, you have to take

accountability for your part.

957

:

So- Yeah … that's rebellion, yeah.

958

:

Yeah.

959

:

I would just say the same.

960

:

I think, um, judgment is mainstream, man.

961

:

Everybody's offended by everything and

judging every single person they see.

962

:

It is like hip- Mm … to be judgmental

and- Fast and cheap … offended-

963

:

Judg- … about- Judgment is fast

and cheap … every fucking thing.

964

:

And the thing is, we

all want the same thing.

965

:

The, even, we're not seeing eye to

eye because we're thinking about it

966

:

differently, because we have different

beliefs, but we want the same thing.

967

:

And if everybody, both sides, understood

that actually coming together and

968

:

having compassion and trying to

understand each other is the biggest

969

:

fucking rebellion of all- Fuck yeah

970

:

and that we will, that if we do that,

we actually get what we all want.

971

:

Yeah.

972

:

And still can keep your beliefs

and however you wanna do things.

973

:

You know?

974

:

It doesn't have to be

one way or the other.

975

:

It doesn't have to be your way or my way.

976

:

It can be both.

977

:

Mm.

978

:

Yeah.

979

:

We need to continue

rebelling with kindness.

980

:

Hell yeah.

981

:

Fierce kindness.

982

:

Yeah.

983

:

Definitely.

984

:

Anything else you guys wanna add?

985

:

Again, listen I thought you might've

had something, 'cause you're like…

986

:

All righty.

987

:

No.

988

:

Excellent.

989

:

But this was an awesome conversation

yet again Are you getting the…

990

:

Ready?

991

:

All righty.

992

:

We'll see you guys.

993

:

Thanks everybody.

994

:

Love ya.

995

:

See you guys next time.

996

:

Bye.

997

:

Bye.

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Three Rebel Souls
Three women’s delightfully unserious, honest conversations on sovereignty, truth, and transforming pain into power for freedom and authenticity.

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Rebel Souls